The second generation: British-Irish or English-Irish?

The Commission for Racial Equality is set to disappear in a few months time. In the meantime, however, its magazine Catalyst has some interesting articles.

The CRE seems to be embroiled in a bit of controversy about Englishness at the moment so its perhaps worth noting that there are two good pieces on English identity by Gavan Curley and Roger Scruton.

There’s also a piece on the second-generation Irish by Professor Mary Hickman, the leading academic authority on the Irish in Britain. It considers the question of how people born in Britain of Irish descent should define themselves.

The concept of ‘Britishness’ was always meant to be an umbrella
identity, which effectively masked its close relationship to
Englishness. Part of the problem lies in the hierarchical basis of
Britishness, which the terms ‘the Celtic fringe’ and ‘ethnic minority’
amply demonstrate. There has never been a way to be Irish-British or
British-Irish in England, Wales or Scotland, which is remotely
comparable with the way in which it is perfectly acceptable to be
Irish-American. One might expect to find ready recognition of the
potential for British and Irish identities to be entwined – in the
children and grandchildren of Irish migrants to Britain. But this is
not the case. (Hybrid and hyphenated)

In spite of these criticisms, Professor Hickman sees a British-Irish identity as more viable than an English-Irish one:

To be accepted as English, it is not possible to maintain a meaningful
Irish identification. Many second generation Irish who assumed they
were Irish-English have come to realise this is not a possibility. As
such, they expose the limitations of whiteness as an overarching
racialised ‘ethnicity’, and reveal the boundaries that tightly enclose
Englishness.

My own view is more or less the opposite of this for a number of reasons. For one thing, if it’s true that "the concept of Englishness is narrow, with little room for internal cultural difference," the same could be said of Irishness with at least as much justice.

The reason for this is that both identities have deep cultural roots, unlike Britishness, which is a a state-led identity.This political content explains why an Irish-American identity is much more viable than a British-Irish one, at least for Irish nationalists.

American republicanism was a formative influence on modern Irish nationalism, whereas it was defined by its rejection of British institutions.

The dilemma can be put as a simple question: Is it possible to be both an Irish nationalist and a British unionist?

On a simple territorial interpretation, it’s possible to argue that one could oppose the union between Britain and Northern Ireland but support the union between England and Scotland.

However, an alternative view might take more account of the political philosophies that have shaped nationalism and unionism. Is it possible to be both a republican and a monarchist, for example?

Another issue is the position of the Irish in Scotland or Wales who might well feel very comfortable with a Scottish or Welsh identity rather than a British one.

Scottishness is not a pedigree lineage, it’s a mongrel tradition. The
more varied the mix, the richer the tradition. The contribution of the
immigrant Irish, for example, to the nature of Scottishness has been
crucial. (Sunday Herald)

Is it only the second-generation Irish in England who are expected to adopt a British-Irish identity?

If so, it looks like another example of what might be called the current catch-22 of Englishness.

English identity is relegated to a purely cultural status, because unlike Scottish or Welsh identity it has no insititutional expression.

The cultural exclusivity of Englishness is then used, in a self-fulfilling prophecy, to justify the refusal to establish any specifically English political institutions.


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4 responses to “The second generation: British-Irish or English-Irish?”

  1. Steve avatar
    Steve

    What the hell nonsense are you talking about?, “British-Irish”…..”English-Irish”…?????
    If i was born second generation in the ROI would i be “Irish-English?”…..of course not!, id be Irish!!……if your born in England your ENGLISH!……nothing else!!…if you wanna be something else than go to that country!!!.

  2. Tom Griffin avatar

    If i was born second generation in the ROI would i be “Irish-English?”
    Historically, the label would have been ‘Anglo-Irish’, but perhaps the social connotations of that phrase are rather outmoded now.

  3. Philip Hosking avatar

    Following the recent stories of Cornish nationalist extremists in the UK that have set countless journalists scuttling down to our Duchy I would like to pass on to you this press release from the civil rights pressure group the Cornish Stannary Parliament: http://www.cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk/
    On the strength of the manipulation of the evidence taken from an impressionable Cornish teenager, the press appears to be attempting to condemn as nationalist anyone claiming to be Cornish. Nationalist is not applied to anyone claiming to be English. We are all British with only British passports so, any sub-division of British is equally nationalist. If British is the legally correct nationality, then, the use of English, for the state funded English Heritage Co. Ltd., would be an example of cultural nationalism.
    Are we Cornish really the guilty nationalists as charged by those self-appointed judges, the barons of the English press?
    The press appears to have been given the task of covering up centuries of economic nationalism in Cornwall retained, with Crown immunity and inalienable rights, for Duchy profit authorised by the permanent English majority at Westminster. This feudal legacy is ripe for exposure as incompatible with the modern principle of equality before the law. In a state where the public are being deprived of the other side of the story, the suspicion is aroused of the presence of journalistic nationalism.
    Recently, the United Kingdom became the only one of 27 member states of the European Union to have “won” the right to exclude Fundamental rights from its legal system. This apparent assertion of racial supremacy is similarly suspected in the exclusion from the Human Rights Act 1998 of Article 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights: “the right to an effective remedy for violations by persons acting in an official capacity”. In addition, politicians do not appear prepared to legislate for a guarantee of: “The right to equality before the law for all persons” currently unavailable in the English legal system. Such a basic international right is available in a written constitutional form for all the citizens of the Monarchy of Sweden, the United States of America, France, Germany, Poland and Switzerland to name but a few governments who have created universal inalienable rights for their citizens. They have rejected legislative nationalism by accepting that the individual has the right, in every case of the alleged abuse of power, institutional bias and official racial discrimination, to enforce accountability upon persons acting in an official capacity.
    To avoid the possibility of a charge of academic nationalism, we challenge English universities to write down the British Constitution as it stands today showing proof of any inalienable rights available to the individual to challenge any alleged failure to comply with the Oath of Allegiance taken by persons acting in an official capacity.
    The Human Rights Act includes Article 10 of the European Convention: “Freedom of expression”. This gives Cornish people the right to declare their membership of the Cornish national minority, (Article 14): “without interference by public authority”. The Police do not record declarations of “Cornish” on their forms. Is this a case of interference with freedom of expression encouraged by the Duke of Cornwall’s attack on human rights? (The Times, 2nd March 2006).
    The denial of basic Human rights, Fundamental rights and equality before the law is an agenda for a police state with Crown immunity. Every attempt to grab absolute power must be resisted by rejecting all forms of aggressive nationalism, whether Cornish or English, and demanding the right to be condemned only by an impartial and independent Court of law free from judicial nationalism.

  4. Philip Hosking avatar

    Following the recent stories of Cornish nationalist extremists in the UK that have set countless journalists scuttling down to our Duchy I would like to pass on to you this press release from the civil rights pressure group the Cornish Stannary Parliament: http://www.cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk/
    On the strength of the manipulation of the evidence taken from an impressionable Cornish teenager, the press appears to be attempting to condemn as nationalist anyone claiming to be Cornish. Nationalist is not applied to anyone claiming to be English. We are all British with only British passports so, any sub-division of British is equally nationalist. If British is the legally correct nationality, then, the use of English, for the state funded English Heritage Co. Ltd., would be an example of cultural nationalism.
    Are we Cornish really the guilty nationalists as charged by those self-appointed judges, the barons of the English press?
    The press appears to have been given the task of covering up centuries of economic nationalism in Cornwall retained, with Crown immunity and inalienable rights, for Duchy profit authorised by the permanent English majority at Westminster. This feudal legacy is ripe for exposure as incompatible with the modern principle of equality before the law. In a state where the public are being deprived of the other side of the story, the suspicion is aroused of the presence of journalistic nationalism.
    Recently, the United Kingdom became the only one of 27 member states of the European Union to have “won” the right to exclude Fundamental rights from its legal system. This apparent assertion of racial supremacy is similarly suspected in the exclusion from the Human Rights Act 1998 of Article 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights: “the right to an effective remedy for violations by persons acting in an official capacity”. In addition, politicians do not appear prepared to legislate for a guarantee of: “The right to equality before the law for all persons” currently unavailable in the English legal system. Such a basic international right is available in a written constitutional form for all the citizens of the Monarchy of Sweden, the United States of America, France, Germany, Poland and Switzerland to name but a few governments who have created universal inalienable rights for their citizens. They have rejected legislative nationalism by accepting that the individual has the right, in every case of the alleged abuse of power, institutional bias and official racial discrimination, to enforce accountability upon persons acting in an official capacity.
    To avoid the possibility of a charge of academic nationalism, we challenge English universities to write down the British Constitution as it stands today showing proof of any inalienable rights available to the individual to challenge any alleged failure to comply with the Oath of Allegiance taken by persons acting in an official capacity.
    The Human Rights Act includes Article 10 of the European Convention: “Freedom of expression”. This gives Cornish people the right to declare their membership of the Cornish national minority, (Article 14): “without interference by public authority”. The Police do not record declarations of “Cornish” on their forms. Is this a case of interference with freedom of expression encouraged by the Duke of Cornwall’s attack on human rights? (The Times, 2nd March 2006).
    The denial of basic Human rights, Fundamental rights and equality before the law is an agenda for a police state with Crown immunity. Every attempt to grab absolute power must be resisted by rejecting all forms of aggressive nationalism, whether Cornish or English, and demanding the right to be condemned only by an impartial and independent Court of law free from judicial nationalism.

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